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Changes to 2012 Monthly Series?
Affiliate monthlies with PDGA League to receive round ratings 54%  54%  [ 13 ]
Leave it alone 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Leave monthlies alone and create separate PDGA League 42%  42%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 24
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:57 pm 
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From Board Member Kevin McCoy:

I think I can officially say there WILL be PDGA Leagues next year.
The Motion Passed!
Get your local club to join the PDGA Leagues and you can play Official PDGA rated rounds at your local weeknight action.

$ 1 Per Person (.50 cents goes to PDGA, .50 goes to League)

He is also working on getting the alc rule relaxed.

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Last edited by Cuts on Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:28 am 
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There can be a division that opts out of this if they wish. Any thoughts? yes/no?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:30 pm 
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This is one of the last bastions for non-pdga, informal tourney play. Costs go up, relaxed atmosphere goes down.

IMHO, I say NO to pdga monthlies. If it moves ahead, I'm done with monthlies.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:10 pm 
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I thought it would be a fun way for PDGA players to keep track of their personal rounds at their local courses. And for those players who dislike the idea, can simply opt out.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:21 pm 
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im not sure why a skylands monthly cant offer a relaxed fun vibe and also
allow the round to be used for pdga ratings purposes.

if the extra cost is $1 i cant imagine anyone having a serious objection from a financial standpoint.

the atmosphere is a function of those in attendance. just because an event's scores get used for
your pdga rating doesnt automatically change the informal vibe, does it? if it does, why?

i suck if i suck. i'm on if i'm on. i have fun if i have fun. it doesnt matter whther it's a pdga NT event
or weekly doubles. it's up to me to create my own atmosphere (and lately i've been a total
nitwit at creating a fun atmosphere for myself).

but cuts, an individual cant opt out, right? a division has to opt out?

an alternative would be to run some monthlies as "informal non-rated events" and others as "informal rated events".

we have 4 local courses, and 12 monthlies, so theoretically half could be one and the other.

dd

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:19 pm 
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ive seen this discussion a few years ago when we wanted to up doubles by a buck. may have been the most lively discussion every on this forum. my 2 cents is what do i care about a buck. worth it just to see that a 48 at buzzys is only a 920 round. im made of dollar bills, thats what i get as spending money. the way i see it i would crumble and fold under the added pressure of an additional $10 a year, id probably never have fun again. now a more important question, do you have to be a pdga member for tracking purposes?
that is an added exspense. MENOCAREABOUTTHEBUCK.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:32 pm 
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Just to clarify, I don't care about the buck either. That's not my point. (Though Roach, you owe me a buck from our bet on Saturday).

I just think there is a certain vibe at monthlies that separates it from the more formal tourneys, a big part of the reason I like the monthlies, and don't play tourneys too much. Not to mention Luke's pork bbq.

There IS a certain amount of inherent pressure that SOME of us feel in more formal tourneys, which is fine. That's why they have formal tourneys - head-to-head competition, and seeing how one stacks up against others. I guess all I'm saying is why can't some things - like the monthlies - just remain the same; semi-loose, unaffiliated, informal, not counting for anything other than tags, etc? Why do things always have to change, to be updated, to be made better (subjective)?

Perhaps I'm in the minority on this thinking. Perhaps I'm just looking for "progress" to stay out of the monthlies, and keep it loose and unaffiliated. Perhaps I suck, the game's passing me by, and I need to take up crochet. That's probably it.

As the great Gilda Radner used to say...Nevermind.

THE UNAFFILIATED

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:53 am 
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I like it more pdga rated rounds the better.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:05 am 
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Love it!!!!

The ambiance will not change at all. Just opt out if you can't handle the mind games.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:55 am 
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I'm on the fence....I'm a fan of less government....Will the fact that pdga involvement add to the informality of the round? Just thinking out loud here for discussion purposes..If i want to give someone a "gimmie" will someone b!tch about not properly holing out(i doubt it). I will drink during monthlies ( I do get a good feeling about drinking PDGA sanctioned beers) would someone dirt dog me and send anonymous complaints to PDGA? I doubt it.....The PDGA is opening themselves to a ton more headaches with weirdos bothering them about petty stuff an crazy administration tasks but that's their problem..... would anyone like to pay me a dollar a round so I could make them feel good or bad about putting a #(rating) next their name on a web site? ...Can i continue to show up 5 minutes late and NOT get penalized par+4 for a hole i can make up while running down Buzzy's hole 1 fairway spilling a fresh Ruination all over my gut?......Does this mean more work for the VOLUNTEER that's is running the monthly?( I guess it would be up to the person running the monthly to make it PDGA?) Cost to me seems pretty insignificant, especially with an "opt out" option...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:55 am 
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The only real negative I see is the administrative tasks. In our current format (playing for tags and money), people shouldn't be giving gimmies or relaxing rules of play. Showing up late in any format just douches everyone who gets there on time. For me I simply see it as a way to have your scores rated, like ball golfers recieve handicaps. I'm going to put up a poll to see where people are at.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:18 pm 
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Yo Cuts, can you post a link or something from the PDGA where we can read up on this stuff?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:40 pm 
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I'm also on the fence about this. In some respects, I think this would be very cool. In others, it sounds like a headache.

I think we have enough trouble finding volunteers to run our monthlies, and adding another layer might make that even more difficult.

Some more details have to be released before we can decide either way, but I have questions about things like divisions: will we still have three divisions (pro, am, rec), and will those divisions be regulated by PDGA guidelines, or are we going to have to offer other divisions (intermediate, for example)? I don't think we have enough players at a typical monthly to have more than three divisions.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:57 pm 
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i will once again throw my "cover-our-ass" hat in the ring.

these monthlies are becoming a very dangerous game, pdga-ratings or not.

whether it's Buzzys or Warwick or Campgaw, consumption of alcohol is strictly prohibited in all three parks.
we'd all be pretty pissed off if our failure to abide by this rule resulted in a course being pulled or some other punitive action occurring.

a casual golfer that enjoys a few microbrews is on his/her own. but if we run monthlies or doubles and we overtly condone or supply beer we're playing a very dangerous game. that is one of the main reasons why i dont attend - because i as the designer of the three courses dont want my name associated with club sponsored events where we're completely turning a blind eye. i love my brew as much as the next guy. but i dont love it so much that i am willing to participate in consumption and endanger our right to have a course in the park.

all we need is to have one individual raise a stink and we will have an issue to deal with that we could have prevented.

i hate to be a buzzkill but i need to go on record and suggest that we do a better job of eliminating organized consumption.

now if someone were to create a course acorss the street from one of these venues on private property, at least then microbrews are another matter entirely.

dd

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:28 pm 
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http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/sh ... hp?t=49644

Lots of info on that thread....seems like it's purely optional and only those opting in would pay and receive the ratings.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:22 pm 
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It looks like they're going to publish something soon with more details, but from what chuck said on that thread, this might not work for monthlies anyway. It's designed for more of a weekly league format, I think. He said PDGA fees would be $25 for the league and $.50 per player per week. Leagues could run for a max of three months.

This might be something to think about for my Buzzy's handicapped league, though. Maybe run the weekly payouts based on handicaps as I've been doing, but submit raw scores to PDGA for ratings each week?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:48 am 
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I'd like to see some type of calculation on how the ratings would turn out for the typical amount of players and their current ratings we get.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:53 am 
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It would be cool if the PDGA could create something that tracks points at the same time so we could also track end of year winners for each division.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:09 pm 
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Scoward wrote:
It would be cool if the PDGA could create something that tracks points at the same time so we could also track end of year winners for each division.



Right. If the PDGA is looking for more $$$ from our local events, then there has got to be something in it more for us other than a rating. Take that extra dollar and throw it toward improving our courses. If our only 1000+ rated players S. B. and Cuts are not in the monthly trust me your ratings will tank based on the propagators which may include me at 947.
The more 1000+ rated players in a tourney the better your ratings. It's a fact.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:18 am 
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Just playing devils advocate here. .50 cents per round to receive a rating is a great value. The other .50 cents goes to the league, course, club, etc. To me, this seems like an added value, rather than a pdga money grab. As it is now, we already have 3-4 weekly envents that charge a $ 1 per player for course funds. Our accounting of those funds and distribution to course needs is vague . So why would we be against something that is optional, and that many club members see as a great value?

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Last edited by Cuts on Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:33 pm 
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OK then there is a kick back. I think we should try it, why not see how it plays out and it may draw better (bad choice of words we're the best!) players to our events. True, course cash has not been accounted for by all events however if you look at doubles threads and monthlies I've run you will always see FULL accounting of where ALL the money went which is evident with the wood you all walk on those bridges, tools, etc. I no longer 'ask' and get permission without it in writing for this reason although it is on the 'net which is why I send all cash to treasurer Doyle as recently as the $34 profit from WW monthly BBQ.


Last edited by Adam on Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:36 pm 
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P.S. this came up at WW monthly-no official rules on 'capping' the ace pot or having to join the club to take the capped pot like at our other events-this needs to be the rule for monthlies I.M.O. Thread drift...


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:22 am 
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All good, I didnt mean to come off that way regarding use of course funds. It was a poor choice of words by me. Sorry.. Anyway, let's wait to see what the PDGA comes out with. As Greg said, the league run 12 weeks longso all monthlies could not be used. Maybe we compromise and use 2-3 monthlies during the 12 weeks of the league.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:26 am 
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Greg wrote:
It looks like they're going to publish something soon with more details, but from what chuck said on that thread, this might not work for monthlies anyway. It's designed for more of a weekly league format, I think. He said PDGA fees would be $25 for the league and $.50 per player per week. Leagues could run for a max of three months.

This might be something to think about for my Buzzy's handicapped league, though. Maybe run the weekly payouts based on handicaps as I've been doing, but submit raw scores to PDGA for ratings each week?


On the fence as well, but the league thing may be cool, I like this idea. Mostly because it would be optional. The buck does not come into play. I dont play a lot of Tourneys, and actually play better at local stuff, and would like to have a single round go towards my crappy rating, maybe I could improve it...
Also not sure how much work will be involved for the TD. So, lets think about a PDGA League and if it occurs, see how the turn out is. Monthlys maybe should stay our own.
Greg, if you need help running a league I can chip in, maybe split some of the responsibilities.

And what Dan said about park rules is correct. Lets not screw up a good thing. What one person does is that ones responsibility. What a group/club does is another.
So Dan, whens your first monthly?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:07 pm 
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Adam wrote:
OK then there is a kick back. I think we should try it, why not see how it plays out and it may draw better (bad choice of words we're the best!) players to our events. True, course cash has not been accounted for by all events however if you look at doubles threads and monthlies I've run you will always see FULL accounting of where ALL the money went which is evident with the wood you all walk on those bridges, tools, etc. I no longer 'ask' and get permission without it in writing for this reason although it is on the 'net which is why I send all cash to treasurer Doyle as recently as the $34 profit from WW monthly BBQ.


We created a Monthly TD pack which has worked well. Maybe we can create an easy online excel file so to track this stuff? Rev created one in the past for tags.
Maybe its too much work? , just an idea.... thread scope broken.... now back to our regularly PDGA Local Ratings scheduled program....

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:12 pm 
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I've never run a 'pdga event' before; is there much to do? could someone just do that part of the monthlies? like i'll still take care of scoring, payouts, tags, what-not; then i can pass the scores to whomever and they report to pdga for each monthly.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:18 am 
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as far as scoring, player info is basically an excel spreadsheet with players divisions, names and pdga numbers thats uploaded to the tourney site on pdga.com.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:17 am 
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I'd like to think this isn't a done deal yet. Last I looked, the polling was a 50% split. Half of the respondents want no change to the monthlies...and even if it wasn't a full 50%, I still think the people are sending a a message.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:05 am 
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Actually no change is 6%. Half want it for Monthlies, half want it for league play only, and this discussion is only 6 days old.... I think it fits better to league play. And with the handicap league your pretty much playing against yourself, not against others. You are competing against others at the end of the league for final placement, but thats is. So adding ratings to this may be fun. Id think it would be more of a true average, instead of how you do at tourneys only. And the opt out will be there for people that dont want to participate. I dont think that would change the vibe of the handicap league. I think its cool because I wouldn't have to pay $30/40 to play a tourney to actually GET ratings.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:33 pm 
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a key element was mention in last few posts, players pdga number is given so tracking can begin. now that is a big added expense for the casual player. there are a lot of casual players who play and are not pdga members, so they would not be included in tracking and it would scew the scores because not all rounds count. it now seems more hassle then the benifits are worth. let me see 10 weeks at a buck extra plus min 50 extra now makes it 10 weeks at 6 bucks extra. i never did understanf the ranking fanaticism. who gives 2 cents if you shot an 800 round and won or shot an 983 round and came in 5th? to me the only time i ever care about a rating is when trying to divide doubles into a and b tiers. and that only if the questionable assignment players dont have sky land tags.
id rather see everone have a skyland tag , then a pdga number so they can get a round rating. MY$56WORTH

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:23 am 
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i havent attempted to process all the variables or the pros and cons.

if it helps, i'd be willing to open up the Oasis course (and probably joe and becca would agree) for some sort
of regular ongoing weekly/monthly organized rated/not rated gathering. we want players to experience our course
as often as possible because it helps us build momentum for the other activities we plan for our haven.

i see the plusses and minusses on both sides of the formal vs informal continuum. i'm willing to offer up our course
so that maybe it gives us more options.

if, for example, a monthly was held at The Oasis every month AND at one of the other skylands courses every month, then the club could offer both a formal pdga-rated monthly AND an informal non-rated monthly every month. maybe some months the club course has the rated monthly and in other months the club course has a non-rated monthly. The Oasis would run the opposite format each month.

that might be the optimal situation.

dd

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:29 am 
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I think a big reason for doing it with the Monthilies is because there really isn't enough time on the calendar to throw a PDGA League and Monthlies and Tourneys.

Can someone that feels like it should be seperate please give me a good reason why?
Havent really heard one yet.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Without a formal explanation from the PDGA of how they plan to handle this whole thing, all anyone can do is speculate how cool or uncool this could be....I could list off half a dozen pros and con right now but it's all meaningless until they tell us whats up...

bah

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:35 pm 
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discgolfdan wrote:
if it helps, i'd be willing to open up the Oasis course (and probably joe and becca would agree) for some sort
of regular ongoing weekly/monthly organized rated/not rated gathering.

dd


not too related to the topic of PDGA ratings but, you're the only course that could host a glow event... the full moon happens pretty regularly.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:32 pm 
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rev. noah wrote:
discgolfdan wrote:
if it helps, i'd be willing to open up the Oasis course (and probably joe and becca would agree) for some sort
of regular ongoing weekly/monthly organized rated/not rated gathering.

dd


not too related to the topic of PDGA ratings but, you're the only course that could host a glow event... the full moon happens pretty regularly.


I've heard that the PDGA is sometimes sanctioning glow rounds, too. :D

All kidding aside, I think glow events at the Oasis sounds fantastic!

Once the PDGA let's us know what all the details will be for league, I'll work up something for a singles league. Right now I'm thinking of a Buzzy's league how they handle it at Tyler--if you want to play handicapped, play handicapped. If you want to play straight up, play straight up. No reason I can't run both simultaneously, I'll just have two sign up sheets. I can also submit for PDGA rankings, if that works out and people are interested. Just a heads up, though, I'll have to move to Wednesday nights this year because my schedule has changed.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:00 pm 
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roach wrote:
do you have to be a pdga member for tracking purposes?
that is an added exspense.

Good question. Probably. and its another reason to have a newbie join the pdga
Existing PDGA Members: Benefit by having more ratings per year. which is also cool., Hey, if your a member its one of the perks. Im a member.

roach wrote:
id rather see everone have a skyland tag , then a pdga number so they can get a round rating

Skylands Membership: Point taken. Will a local casual player become a skylands member or a pdga member? and why?
if a newbie is gonna pay xx $ to be more involved in DG whats the reason?
that would be thread drift, but a topic worthy of discussion.

CharliePoBoyZ wrote:
Can someone that feels like it should be seperate please give me a good reason why? Havent really heard one yet.

and I cant argue this statement. can anyone? pipe in.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:16 am 
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jbyrd wrote:
CharliePoBoyZ wrote:
Can someone that feels like it should be seperate please give me a good reason why? Havent really heard one yet.

and I cant argue this statement. can anyone? pipe in.


when i first start play disc i was be obsess with the pdga ratings. i look at them for all the day and hope they growed to be high like steve rico. my girlfrien is then became mad at julio and she tell that she is leave if i keep loving the ratings instead of her. so i make promise that i will no love the ratings and no play at event that hav them. this mean i could no play monthly if there is rating. sorry to say :( :( :(


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:47 pm 
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I think somewhere hidden inside Julio's post is a meaningful message. Yes, unhealthy obsession over PDGA ratings can be bad. Earlier this year my son played in his first national tour event, in which he shot his first ever 1000 rated round. I was happy for him at the time, but later that evening I caught him pleasuring himself to a print out of his round rating. Needless to say, his mother and I were less than impressed. Especially since he did the same thing last year after he drafted a good fantasy football team.

Like the saying goes - "youth is wasted on the young".


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:03 pm 
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The latest Discgolfer, the PDGA's magazine, just arrived at my house, and it has some pretty general information about the PDGA leagues. There are very few specifics, and most of our questions are still unanswered, but it's a start. If I had a scanner that works, I'd scan in the article. But I don't. I sent an e-mail to Kevin McCoy to see if he could answer some more specific questions. He might be inundated with such e-mails, though, so I'm not really expecting a speedy reply.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:53 pm 
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Can't we just designate a specific monthly to try it out, like an Animal S-B monthly? See how it works out and the feedback and go from there. Let's pick a date.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:10 am 
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Will non-PDGA members have to buck up?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:37 am 
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The league format will not work for our monthly series. The article states (as Greg said) that all PDGA 12 week leagues will start at the same time througout the country. Yes, we could include 2 or 3 monthlies within that 12 week period. But, it seems to work better on a set night per week. When I made the initial post information was limited. The recent article explains the format in detail. Greg, I can help with the admin and uploading of scores, etc. I like the idea of Wednesday nights and a seperate event not club affiliated would remove the PDGA negativity from those who dislike it.

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 Post subject: a weekly oasis league
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:27 am 
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Kevin McCoy posted details on the PDGA website with regard to how the leagues would work.

if i was to volunteer to host a weekly friday nite league at The Oasis, what would your comments be about this?

alcohol and food would be available for purchase.

the leagues need to be between 6 and 12 weeks long. i havent thought about the details yet, but suppose we ran a 10-week league starting 4/13 and running thru 6/15, and then a 2nd 10-week league running 7/6 thru 9/7?

comments?

dd

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:52 pm 
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discgolfdan wrote:
if i was to volunteer to host a weekly friday nite league at The Oasis, what would your comments be about this?


I'm still planning to run a singles league on Wednesdays at Buzzy's--whether or not it's PDGA sanctioned has to do with what the PDGA board decides about the alcohol policy. From what Kevin posted today, he's requesting that the PDGA board consider relaxing the alcohol rule:
Quote:
"Alcohol rules will be based on local park or city/state laws for consumption of alcohol in the park... Right now I'm guessing there will probably be a waiver situation that you sign, and the players will be responsible for their own behavior or actions."

If this is the case and I can just have players sign off that they're responsible for their own actions (legal or otherwise) and not have to narc on them to the PDGA, then I'll likely make it possible (but optional) for players to receive PDGA ratings.

As for a Friday Oasis league, I think that sounds great. I'll likely make it up there on occasion. We'd then have Tuesday dubs, Wednesday singles, Thursday dubs, and Friday singles.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:22 pm 
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i like the idea dan. i'd try to make it a few times. i'd want to byob.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:13 am 
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I like the idea as well Dan, also dont mind a shilling for Holmgren's Brew. He brews some fine goods... I'll make it up there for a few Friday's. Also will be playing Greg's handicap league regardless of PDGA being in or out (But I would prefer its included as an option).

Here is the link to the PDGA League discussion in case someone hasnt found it.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:11 pm 
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So regardless of PDGA sanctioning, is there a 2012 monthly schedule shaping up? We had Buzzys IB in January and now Warwick IB in February but these Winter months are also good for monthlies with less conflict with the PDGA schedule. Especially with The Oasis popping up across the street, can't wait to play there!


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