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 Post subject: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:24 am 
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2015 Monthly Schedule

I have tried to be careful to not schedule a monthly that interferes with any local tournaments.

We want to payout cash to each division but in order to do so fairly, the fee must be the same for all. Therefore, the fee shall be $15 to play.
Divisions will be: Pro / Pro Master / AM / Rec The "Pro Masters" will only be active if 4 or more sign up. Pro Masters is for 40 and over only.

Also for each monthly, a optional CTP of $2 will go to anyone who sinks an Ace. If no Ace, a throw off at the end. No carry over. This is a great chance for some pocket money! It will be awarded each time.

February
Sunday the 22nd
11:00 AM
Buzzys

March
Sunday the 15th
11:00 AM
Warwick

April
Sunday the 12th
11:00 AM
Wolfe Woods (Warwick)

May
Camp Gaw
(TBD)

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:38 am 
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April 12th is Easter. just saying.

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:49 am 
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Damn work calendar. DOH! Knew I might have to change one. I was more concerned with Fools Fest and other tourneys! Thanks Roach.

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:09 am 
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Hey Dave, thanks for the heads up but Easter is April 5th this year! :D

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:38 pm 
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Looks good, couple questions:

Are we sending a % of purse to the club to fundraise for our projects?
Are payouts based on division or will the entire purse be divided among the 4 divisions?

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:22 pm 
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CLUB fund raising is def a part of these events as is new members and new players. Pushing new players to come means we should have tags available for purchase too.

If weather is decent for these I am hoping to see 20 + come out. $15 * 20 = $300 so I think a %15 back to club is fair. Leaves $255 / 3 = $85 / division.

I do however plan on really pushing these events with members and to bring new players with them. Thus the $15 fee instead of $20.

payout top 3
$15 to 3rd (gets their money back)
$25 to 2nd (at least $10 more the 3rd)
$45 to 1st (at least $20 more than 2nd)

payouts adjusted based on how many show but you get the idea. Will most likely always be 3 divisions. It would be nice to play Masters but we it will be hard to convince AMs to play up but I will be pushing that as well. I will be incorporating your idea of "win your division 3 times in a calendar year and you must move up"

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:27 pm 
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Thanks for stepping up to run these events, Jeff!

With that being said, I think that there is a flaw in this setup. I feel that if there is an equal entry fee across divisions players may choose to bump down to play in a division that has more players.

Personally, if I show up and there are 3 pros and 12 ams, I will just play am because there is a bigger pot and thus, a more lucrative payout. I may hear some not-so-kind words from my fellow competitors but since it's an unsanctioned event, there is no recourse.

Thoughts?

Or am I misundertanding the whole thing?

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:53 pm 
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The problem I have with monthlies is this. We play Buzzys. I shoot a 48. I place 4 out of 7 in the pro division and don't cash. Some random AM shoots a 54 in am and wins $50. I shoot 6 shots better and get nothing while some guy does worse and gets paid. I would be into 1 large division paying half the field. There is no incentive for an AM to get better if he is rewarded for shooting poorly.


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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:43 am 
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why couldn't the monthlies have a handicap-based component?

then we could have 1 division. pay top "X"% of players based on raw (unadjusted) score and top "Y"% based on handicapped (adjusted) score.

then bagging and figuring out what division you should play in goes away.

im not sure how we would handle a first-timer though since they wouldn't have a handicap.

sean and glucose's points are quite valid.

dd

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:55 am 
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well, the overall pot would be split. So if the Pro group has 6 players and the AM group has 15 the amount of payout would be the same for the top 3. So can you place in Pro or AM? Will you win AM? I say go for it. Win it 3 times and you move up for good. The only thing on the line is your personal pride.

I do get it. If you want to go back to charging separate fees $20 / $15 / $10 and keep the pots separate we are back to the original debate of pot amounts being played for. 6 Pros @ $20 = $120 15 AMs @ $15 = $225 so as it has been declared already "what is keeping someone from playing down and cashing in?" which brought up "funny money" or "Ching Bling" payouts to all AMs. None of the AMs were in favor of trophy only. Many shared their opinions that a monthly was the only event they can play for cash.

It is indeed still on the table I see. The board did vote though.

I appreciate the feedback. We need to think it through. It is hard to make it totally fair for all. I personally "play up" at monthlies. I think it is a good time to test the waters. I usually would play AM2 if there is a stacked AM field but I like to play AM at monthlies. I actually placed a few times and almost took it once. Its a non PDGA event so even if you tank your score remains with the club. The satisfaction of playing up and doing well is worth the fee.

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:12 am 
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monthlies need to attract new players. $15 to play and you have a chance to place. Handicaps are cool but I don't think this is the venue for it. A handicap league is what we need this spring.

Yes, many have valid points. We can probably go around and around talking about it without ever reaching totally common ground.

Bottom line, it needs to be easy to run, easy to manage, easy to pay out. Needs to be unintimidating for a 1st timer. I keep coming back to this because I did not have great 1st time experiences with dubs and monthlies. I heard similar stories from others when I began to inquire. Players of many years tend to forget that they once didnt know how any of this works. Determined players come back. I wonder how many came once and never again..?? I wonder how many were tuned off and wound up never signing up for a real tournament?

So you can see I am interested in much more then just running this. Grow the sport, evangelize your love for the game and get people to come out.

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:48 am 
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Gold Division 950+ rating
Silver Division 900-949
Bronze Division under 900

Everyone pays $15, payouts within division based on standard table less $2 per person for club.
Win 2 monthlies in a year, you have to play in the higher division regardless of rating.

No PDGA rating? Pay $20 and pick your division (again, if you win twice, you are no longer eligible for that division for the year). Of the $20 entry, $5 goes into a pool. At end of year every non-PDGA who played at least two monthlies is eligible for a random drawing. Person drawn at random has their PDGA membership for 2016 paid out of the pool. Balance of pool goes to club.


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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:05 am 
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Im sorry Bobby. I just dont see it that way. I see these events as a fun way to play for tags and bragging rights once a month. Play well get paid. Focus on the event as a way to grow the club. Focus on a monthly to be "the 1st competitive event someone plays in Disc Golf"

This is my perspective.

A highly competitive league with all kinds of bells and whistles and ratings and such is def a great idea but also def for the "Already a member" of Skylands and the PDGA. I would love to see that and be part of it. I just don't think this is it. If it is, I am not the person to run it. That is not my desire.

Over the last 3 years we have seen many, many MANY new players. I have often greeted a new group coming off the course......."hey boyz! how'd it go out there? Who crushed it? What kind of scores you guys rock?" some guys throwing under par. One group of 5 guys came in once and all of them threw under par. We have never seen them at any events. They didnt even know there was a club or a PDGA.

Monthlies = opportunity to grow the club. More members = more club funds coming in at every event.

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:53 am 
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im just throwing something out there completely spontaneous off the top of my bald head, having thought about it for less than a minute, so feel free to poke holes in my idea.........

suppose jeff ran monthlies they way the board already approved it and the way jeff proposes.

then once (or more??) per month I would host a handicap-based round where raw scores and net scores are rewarded within a single division. mine could be held either at The Oasis or across the street at Warwick. I now have 13 very playable holes and it wont take too much more to either split a few up or add some temp holes to get to 18 holes until I finish the last 5 holes, which could very well happen this spring.

that way we have a monthly that is designed to attract new players and everyone can win cash (jeff's) and with my monthly the better players don't feel as though lesser players can win the same amount of cash as the better players.

thoughts?

dd

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:57 pm 
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To Sean and Glucose’s points, in a ratings based format you’re playing with relatively equal players which takes the “bagging” issue out of play and gives every player in each of the three divisions a decent chance of winning. To Dan and Jeff’s points, grouping divisions by ratings is pretty easy to run (not nearly as difficult as establishing handicaps and calculating net scores).

To Jeff’s point about integrating new players, in a ratings based format new players can be grouped with players who may be shooting a similar scores, but are in a totally different demographic (i.e., MPMs, MGMs, FPOs). This can help to integrate new players in the club scene by breaking down the “clique” mentality where people play with the same people all the time and can also help new players build a good foundation. For example, a new player who is shooting par golf may be in a group with me (playing 20+ years), Dan (playing 30+ years), Mo, Lesli, McGahey, Newman, etc. Playing with modestly rated but experienced golfers can help the new player pick up info which may not come up in an Amateur or Intermediate group such as better understanding of PDGA rules, speed of play, disc and strategy tips, course and sport history, or even something as simple as keeping a pencil in your bag and knowing how to take scores. I would much rather see 10 quality newbie golfers in the club with good habits than 20 chuckers.

If a new player is coming to a monthly, chances are that player has at least some interest in competing. If you like competing against other players or competing against the course, chances are you will also like competing against yourself to improve on your rating. Who doesn’t love checking round ratings after a tournament? If you’re into gauging your progress through your rating, joining the PDGA early is good. Regardless of if or when you join, if you play two monthlies paying the extra $5, you’re eligible to have your 2016 membership paid by the Club.

No matter what the format, I’ll be out for a few. Thanks for stepping up Jeff.


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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:27 pm 
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a classic example of if it aint broke, don't fix it. the simplicity of the way we ran it was fine. it encouraged new players as much as the new goshdarnit way does. lets see another 3 or 4 hours of debate and then jeff will run it as he sees fit. that's the only change as I see it is someone to run them all. NOTSOMETHINGTOTAKEUPTIMEDISCUSSING

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:44 pm 
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Total thread drift.... :P This post is for the 2015 Schedule. So that being said when is the next monthly?
Did I hear of something on facebook for Campgaw - May 2?
Im not happy I missed WW... :(

PS- Thank you Jeff for stepping up to do this. =D>

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:34 am 
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May Monthly is Saturday May 2nd 10AM at Camp Gaw

Despite my feelings of combining Monthlies with workdays, we will on this day as it is the week before the Mighty Gaw.

10AM for the Monthly
1:00 PM for Mighty Gaw workday

IMPORTANT !!!
All Monthlies going forward will start at 10AM.


stay tuned for June / July / August dates

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:06 am 
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Jeff, is the monthly layout Campgaw or Mightygaw?

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:41 pm 
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I have it down for Gaw Greens mostly because the work day is right after. However.......Mighty is the next week and I have a feeling most who show up that day would prob like to play the Mighty Layout (Blues not Black) what do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:47 pm 
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I think folks would rather want to play mighty, but you may loose a worker er 2 if its mighty. All the young bucks dont care, they got power to spare!
Its your call.

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:50 pm 
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agreed. Mighty it is!

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:32 pm 
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Depending on the layout you'll be using (blue or blacks), you'll likely need to set aside 4-5 hours for the round between sign in, getting to the holes, actual play time, and adding everything up at the end/payouts/tags/etc. Just didn't want anyone to be surprised by the difference in play time between the greens and the blacks. I absolutely love the Mighty layouts, just important to keep in mind they are a different animal than the other layouts around Skylands (blue-blue is close, but you don't have to walk up and down a ski hill 3 times while playing that layout!).


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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:25 pm 
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Hey Braxton! do you think we should just do Greens? I would prefer it myself knowing how much Mighty can take from you. Would be nice to not burn anyone out. That is the last day for work. The only prob is I am pretty sure the general consensus would be to play Mighty. :?

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:44 am 
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I defer to you on the layout, you're doing all the work afterall! We'll have time for work after the monthly either way, plus more time on Sunday as well. Certainly understand people would like to play the Mighty layouts since that's what they will play the next week and because they are only playable a few times a year. Just didn't want people to think they were signing up for a 3 hour monthly when it will play longer than that.


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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:50 am 
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well, after some thought, I am pretty darn sure those who show for the monthly will want to play the Mighty. I am posting to FB now.

one last thing. Should we consider having Pros play the Black? Since we went back to division based money they can play a different layout.

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:45 am 
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Only challenge you'll have if the pros play a different layout is that it complicates the tags. We've dealt with this in the past by segregating the division and having them only play against each other for tags, but that's not a perfect solution in that the pros don't get to compete for lower tags that Ams might have.

We have the same issue for Mighty Gaw, but we'll likely just handle that by only using the scores from the first round (where everyone plays the same layout). Also allows us to sort the tags at lunch and avoid a longer wait prior to awards.


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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:10 am 
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of course!!! duh!! my bad. I wasnt thinking tags. Mighty Blues will be the layout. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: 2015 Schedule
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:08 am 
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[size=150]Skylands July Monthly ! [/size]

Sunday July 26th, 10 AM

WOLFE WOODS ! is playing great. This is the first year we have had many people playing Wolfe right through the summer! The trails are getting beat in real good.

WOLFE WOODS work day Saturday the 25th 9:00 am to 1:00 pm only. Random dubs to follow. Pack a cooler, grab some gloves and lets get WW cleaned up for Sunday.

Please come out and support YOUR Disc Golf Club. We have a $22 carry over Ace Pot.

Entry Fees:
$5 Recreational Division
$10 Ameteur Division
$20 Professional Division
$1 CTP to be given away that day
$1 Ace Pot carry over if not hit that day

one round only, layout to be determined.

LAYOUT - 1L, 2L, 3S, 4S, 5L, 6L, 7L, 8S, 9S, 10S, 11S, 12L, 13S, 14S, 15S, 16L, 17L, 18S (Par 54)

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